From precious pomeranians to mangy mutts, all domestic dogs (Canis familiaris) seem to be descended from the Eurasian gray wolf (Canis lupis). But what we still don't know is exactly when and where our best friends transformed from predators into partners. And such knowledge might help solve the long-disputed question of exactly why dogs were the first animal to be domesticated.
Excerpt from Scientific American - http://www.scientificamerican.com/articl…
Though some people do not see a difference between so called "rare breeds" and the current craze of breeding "designer dogs", there truly is a difference. Rare breeds are breeds actually in development and working towards a single type, or old breeds that have fallen out of favor, resulting in a drastic decline in the population. Designer dogs is actually a nice label for the practice of interbreeding two distinct breeds. Before the world became so politically correct, dogs of this nature were referred to as mutts or the proverbial "Heinz 57". Designer dogs are not being bred to develop a single breed type, but are simply catering to what the dog buying public is willing to purchase, and one has to give credit for the clever marketing ploy that persuades buyers to part with hundreds of dollars for the very same dogs that shelters often cannot give away. Not to say that designer dogs don't make fine companions, but the difference in breeding goals should be noted. -
Excerpt from American Kennel Club - http://dogs.lovetoknow.com/wiki/AKC_Dog_…|||Folks who sell designer breeds are really just selling Mutts. I don't have anything against mutts, but lets call them what they really are.
And the shelters are chock full of mutts that need loving homes.|||Aren't we controlling the mixture of genes when we put two cows together in the same stall? Are we not making a designer cow, one that is bigger, and meatier than the rest? Using this logic, designer dogs are not bad. "Controlled mating" is control mating whether it is done inside or outside of a lab.|||i was going to type an answer- then i realized that Reality Check said it for me.
could you hang around, and just paste the link to this question on every Q kids ask about their cocka-collie or their bichon-weiller?|||Because they're bred by greedy liars.|||Preaching to the choir here dude...|||Am I the only one seeing that you're contradicting yourself HUGELY here?? You ask why designer dogs are bad, and yet you list all the EXACT reasons they're bad!!
The domestication of dogs from wolves is irrelevant. We all know where dogs came from. And no, pure breds from reputable breeders ARE NOT more prone to health issues, etc... due to inbreeding. This is because when reputable breeders inbreed, they do so from experience, based on the knowledge they have of their dogs' genetics. It's also done AFTER having all dogs screened for genetic health issues. Show me ONE "designer" dog breeder that does ANY health testing on their dogs, or that is breeding for more then money. I'd put down $10 that says you CAN'T find one. Why? Because they DO NOT exist. Period. What's the issue? Exactly that. What's the point in breeding more pet quality mutts, when THOUSANDS die in shelters daily, that are the EXACT same mixes, and the EXACT same quality, as those being created by "designer breeders".
IF it were done with a PURPOSE in mind, (and I don't just mean the purpose of demand and supply), by people that actually screened the dogs, etc... I wouldn't care. However, show me ONE "designer" breeder that's creating their mutts for a purpose OTHER then to provide what society wants. Show me ONE that's doing it to improve a breed, or create a new breed at all. You can't breed two labradoodles and get a litter of labradoodles. There is NO consistency whatsoever, and there never has been, therefore they ARE NOT trying to create anything except a walking ATM machine. That goes with ANY of the "designer" breeds. NONE of their breeders are doing it for a purpose, other then to fill their own pockets.|||online my dog has a hybrid breed name: Labmeiraner (may have spelled wrong). he is lab and weimeraner mix. a mutt is all. designer dogs are for idiots with too much money.
I have done dog grooming on mixes like goldendoodles. they suck to groom. the hair is nasty and most owners let it go too long and it gets matted to the point of being shaved off too short, cause that's the only option left.|||I don't get it. You ask in your question "Why are designer dogs bad?" but then site excerpts that don't support your argument.
There IS a difference between the breeding of purebreds and the breeding of designer mutts.
Most designer mutts are 1st or at most 2nd generation crosses. The breeds we have today are works of 100s of year of crossing and breeding to get a reliable result. When I take a German Shepherd and breed it to another German Shepherd, I get a litter of German Shepherds. When I take a Lab and breed it to a Poodle, I get a mystery match litter of puppies. Call them what you want, but they aren't a breed and they never will be until I get a reliable results. Breeding Labs to Poodles and then Labs to Poodles and getting "Labradoodles" doesn't make it a new breed.
The other problem is that these dogs are NEVER health tested and cleared for genetic conditions. Well-bred purebreds are. Not all breeders of purebreds health test either....though they should. My point is, that if someone wants a mixed breed dog, with unknown traits, then they should get one from the shelter.
I've owned my share of mutts and purebreds and they all have made great pets.
The only breeding I can support is that of show or working dogs with titles who come from breeders who do genetic health testing. Otherwise, pick up one of the 100000000s of pups in a shelter. Badly bred purebreds are just as bad as designer dogs IMO.
ETA: Kaper put it perfectly.
Until someone wants to go about creating a breed standard for a "puggle" and creates more "puggles" by breeding them to each other for many many generations they will not become a new breed.
Generally breeds have multiple breeds in the foundation stock added for different reasons. This is different to breeding two purebreds and slapping a cutesy name on it.
I really don't get your logic. I'm trying hard to follow you, but you are bouncing around all over the place.|||you posted a question earlyer and i typed ALOT. i'm not sure if you need all these answers now, but here is what i typed:
People react because there are good dogs, that need a home in shelters EVERYWHERE shelters are filling up and people need to adopt, before breed. if you want a certain dog with certain traits, do some research. I'm positive there is a dog somewhere, someplace, that is abandon in a shelter somewhere. no, breeding Isn't "evil", in my opinion, its just something that shouldn't be done in this now. Like i said, there are lots of shelters out there.
Training is something that could be done with any dog. You can train dog to be perfect for someones needs, weather its a protection dog, a trick dog, or almost anything!
Another thing people worry about with breeding is about responsible breeders. Some breeders will carelessly sell dogs to puppy mills, or Puppy breeding factories that are nothing but, cruel, mean, and inhuman. they are places were dogs are treated as "money Makers" instead of "living animals" they have minimum conditions for there dogs, and they dog care about the dogs health what-so-ever. here is a link to a video about puppy mills and how they look:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIV5l4gd_Oo
This is why people don't trust people with breeding as much. these conditions are horrible. often the decided puppies are thrown in garbage bins like trash. if you want to know about breeding dogs for traits, hears a video about puppy mills and how it affect professional dog trainers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVzSzS3kYgg
hope this helped|||Why are designer dogs bad? This is not so much a question that gets 'avoided' as one of those Elephants-in-the-room that people don't admit they're seeing. There is snobbery involved in getting twee mixed breeds (aka. mutts - but 'mutt' is too dorwnmarket). Then there is inverse snobbery from a lot of people who resent 'poseurs' who dare to support this travesty of dog breeding.
That's the main reason why there is all this angst.
The facts relating to bad breeding practises, poor health, the naivite of many first time dog owners who are now starting with a designer mutt, and the surfeit of these dogs making it harder for already-full shelters to rehome their dogs make powerful secondary secondary arguments.
Does that address your actual question?|||Why did you delete your other rant - er, question?
Not sure why it's necessary to post the origin of the domestic dog - yes, we all know they are only about 2% dissimilar from the wolf, quit beating that dead horse.
Unless mutts are screened for congenital disease, are sold before they're born, and are bred in the first place for a WORKING need, then there's no need for them to exist.
There are over 400+ PUREBREDS in existence today. You telling me that you can't pick out a healthy speciman to do what you need it to do from that ginormous of a list?
Bull.
As far as spouting baloney about "designer" dogs - they're mutts. ALL of them. Don't care how many "oodles" and "poos" you add to the name, they're still mutts. Not a thing wrong with mutts - however, the vast majority of them don't have parents that have ever had OFA/CERF ratings.
It is ABHORRANT to keep breeding diseased dogs just because of people's perverted desires - "She should be a mommy!" - "Sex is natural!" - "My dog is pretty/smart/has great markings/a great watchdog/etc. and should be bred to continue those traits!"
There is NOTHING that makes any of the thousands of new badly bred pups born every single day in this country BETTER than the THOUSANDS of dogs killed every single day in this country. NOTHING.
EDIT: "Yes there are unscrupulous people in all aspects of life but that does not mean that there aren't honest well meaning people who breed designer dog."
I mean EXACTLY that!
Either you have some nitwit ignorant person who is breeding half-@ssed without ALL of the information necessary (not honest) or you have a scuzzy BYB/Puppy Mill churning out whatever lines their pockets faster (not honest or well-meaning).
It's either breed happy, healthy PUREBREDS or breed happy, healthy, WORKING MUTTS. It's black and white, no shades of grey here.
EDIT: "Purebred dogs can have more health issues due to inbreeding."
Oh, right . . . and so NONE of the "designer" mutts are EVER coming from badly bred, inbred purebreds in the first place? LOL What in the world are you on about?? WELL-BRED purebreds - those with genetically healthy pedigrees - are NEVER used to make random mutts; badly bred dogs are the ones that are cheaper, more obtainable, and don't come with a strict breeder contract, so THEY are used for breeding mutts.
GOOD breeders often do linebreeding and OCCASIONALLY inbreeding - but they know their dogs' pedigrees, they understand genetics, they consult with their breed mentors, get advice from their reproductive veterinarians, etc. before they ever attempt ANY breeding.|||The issue I have with it, aside from the FACT that almost all "designer" breeders do NOT spend a dime nor a minute of time and effort to find genetically healthy stock, is that the majority of them are using underhanded tactics and outright lies and misdirection to sell their puppies.
They claim that any "doodle" or "poo" will not shed, {they do} that they are smarter than purebreds, {they're not} and that they have "hybrid vigor", {which is total crock o'**** and a lame justification for not spending any time, effort or money on choosing genetically healthy stock}.
They call them "breeds", which is a slap at the breeders that devoted lifetimes to developing real breeds.
You can't just take two dogs, breed them and call it a breed, it don't work that way.
If that's not bad enough, the majority don't take their own back, let alone do rescue.
If you can't at least rescue any dog that was born because you decided to breed it's parents, you shouldn't breed them in the first place.
"Designer breeders" get two dogs from wherever, standard and genetics be damned, breed them and then take money from any one that comes along, that puppy that just went out the door never crosses their minds again.
That's why I have a problem with "designer breeders". It's not the dogs' fault, they are just as much victims of this sort of breeding as real breeders and shelters, {which are loaded with designer dogs, because they shed, they got big, they were too hard to train, yada yada.}|||No, where dogs came from doesn't really factor in. Assuming we all accept they were domesticated from wolves, the selective breeding continued until we had purebred lines. Wolves have a hunt sequence. We see truncated versions of this sequence in different breeds. Retriever chase, but don't attack. Some breeds stalk. Certain breeds that produced only offspring with those desired traits, not all the traits the original domesticated wolf dog had.
I fail to see what relevence that quote has to the argument of breeding designer dogs. "Designer dogs are not being bred to develop a single breed type, but are simply catering to what the dog buying public is willing to purchase, and one has to give credit for the clever marketing ploy that persuades buyers to part with hundreds of dollars for the very same dogs that shelters often cannot give away. Not to say that designer dogs don't make fine companions, but the difference in breeding goals should be noted."
That is exactly our point.
They are basically saying that "designer dog" is a more politically correct term for a mutt or a heinz 57.
Why are designer dogs bad? Why are they good? What makes them different from the mixes overrunning the shelters?
I can tell you what the difference in well bred purebred and the purebreds overrunning the shelters is. It is they were bred with health and temperament in mind. They come from lines that have had health clearances for genetic diseased, from a breeder who knows the lines, the traits, the health issues and the temperament. Designer dogs don't. Few DD breeders do health clearances. Since mixes are unpredictable, they aren't breeding for certain traits.
I no more support irresponsible breeding of purebreds than I do of mixes, just to be clear.
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I am sorry, you just seem to keep changing what you are asking or saying here and contradicting yourself.
I have said in another question and in the one you deleted, I have no problem with crossbreeding to introduce some healthy genes. I have no problem with mixing breeds and selectively breeding to create a new breed.
But that is NOT what these designer dog breeders are doing. They are simply producing first and second generation mixes. They are not breeding to produce anything in particular, they are not breeding for health. They are mixing two dogs and calling it a new breed.
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Ok, you are impossible to follow.
"If you agree that all dog descended from wolves than logic follows that all subsequent dogs are designer dogs breed to produce a certain set of characteristics and traits."
Producing a certain set of characteristics and traits is PUREBRED. You already accepted the designer dogs are not purebred, but mutts.
Purebred is NOT a term that applies only to doga. It is a scientific term that applies to all organisms.
Purebred does not mean 'never been mixed'. So the fact that thousands of years ago all dogs were essentially mutts does not mean that they are now or that designer dogs are the same.
Purebred - denoting a pure strain obtained through many generations of controlled breeding for desirable traits
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/purebre…
True breeding -
A true breeding organism , sometimes also called a pure-bred, is an organism having certain biological traits which are passed on to all subsequent generations when bred with another true breeding organism for the same traits. In other words, to "breed true" means that two organisms with a particular, heritable phenotype produce only offspring with that (same) phenotype.
By way of it does not contrast - a non -true-breeding organism can (and will, some of the time) produce offspring with different phenotypes (physical characteristics). http://www.reference.com/browse/True_bre…
Purebreds are not mutts. When you breed a purebred to the same purebred, you have a known set of characteristics that will appear because it is truebreeding.
When you breed a designer dog to the same type of designer dog, you don't.
Yes, designer dogs *can* become purebreds, if they go through generations of selective breeding for the desired traits. But unless someone actually does this, not just breed first and second generations as is the current practice, they won't.
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